I recently upgraded the Linux workstation that I use at work, and like every Linux upgrade I have ever gone through in the past fifteen years, it’s been as painful as ever.
Well, actually I’m not really talking about the upgrade itself, which was fairly smooth, but just the inevitable thought that precedes booting the new machine (“Let’s see how much Linux has improved in the past two years”) invariably followed by “Well, it still sucks”.
First of all, notice that I’m carefully not disclosing what distribution I’m using, because I know from experience that such rant is always followed by swarms of comments saying “You should have used distribution X, you idiot!”. So there, I hope at least that I’ll be spared this outpouring.
So what am I unhappy about, exactly?
First of all, the very basics. While I lost faith in the Linux user interface a long time ago, I still believe it’s a tremendous operating system for server operations, but from a user perspective, it’s just not there. I’m currently making a full build as I’m writing this, and my 3 Gb multi-core chokes and freezes now and then, sometimes causing the cursor to pause or the menus to not appear for sometimes an entire second.
Isn’t Linux supposed to be the king of time slicing, hyperthreading and process allocations? How come I can barely know that a compilation is occurring when I’m using my XP desktop? Oh and for that matter, my Mac Book Pro is barely better than Linux in that area.
Application installation is still a joke on Linux.
Whether you have to go through pages of manual for rpm, alien or dpkg, the end result is that most of your installations end abruptly and quietly with barely any indication of whether they succeeded or failed. Of course, trying to figure out when you need to use sudo or not is another exercise left to the reader, and some of these installations still leave program files created with the wrong owner. Needless to say such packages will fail in very mysterious ways.
A few days after the upgrade, I’m still not able to play the CD in my tray. Right now, I just press the play button and nothing happens. Needless to say I already gave up on playing mp3’s, much less ripping them (I’ll happily go back to iTunes or Windows Media Player for that).
Just for the fun of it, I tried to Linuxify myself for a few hours and try some highly recommended (and critically acclaimed) Linux programs for regular operations, such as Konqueror and XMMS.
Did you actually see what these look like? Here is a teaser:
Yup, that’s it. Linux’ award winning, top-of-the-line, even-better-than-winamp MP3 player. Good luck finding the menus (there are none, why do they feel the need to copy Windows Media Player’s idiocy?). Oh, and the best? It doesn’t seem to support play lists. I can play a File or a Directory, but no play list. Lovely.
On the desktop side, the fonts are as horrendous as they ever were, opaque window moving still leaves a conspicuous trace on the screen as you move your window around (what year is this, 1992?) and window switching with ALT-TAB is a sad joke compared to its beautiful Vista counterpart (and also Witch on Mac OS, because I still think the defaut Mac OS window switching is pretty bad, although it’s much better than Linux’).
Oh, and just as I was about to post this, I noticed that my Firefox was pinning the CPU at 100% and taking up 400 megs of heap space. Granted, it’s not really Linux’ fault, but it’s certainly another deterrent to add to the long list of reasons why Linux is not for you.
#1 by Frank Bolander on April 18, 2007 - 10:15 am
Yeah, Linux desktops are still fugly. But Vista is by far the biggest POS I have ever seen(Allow or Cancel).
As an aside, if you’re still looking at Linux desktops, you might want to look at Beryl.
http://beryl-project.org/features.php
Some pretty cool and promising stuff for Linux.
#2 by Sam on April 18, 2007 - 10:32 am
Yep, I try Linux (at least two different distros) once a year and it’s still a piece of shit. I cannot fathom how the supposed geek elite still claim the greatness of this OS. Most of the distros can’t even handle the most popular soundcard ever made and configure the OS to use it properly without going through a bunch of headaches.
Every time I use Linux I feel like I’m going backwards in time. They (meaning: everyone who works on piece of shit) should stop and start an entirely new OS. Linux fans have their heads stuck 20 years in the past.
#3 by Matt on April 18, 2007 - 10:34 am
I can’t help myself here, sorry. 🙂
I use both XP and Linux in a workstation setup frequently (XP when I travel and Linux when I’m in the office) and I haven’t experienced the issues you describe in at least a couple of years. These days everything just works. When it comes to Java development, Linux allows me to be more productive than OSX (which I spent $3000 to try 😉 ) and XP. Where Linux fails is in 100% hardware compatibility with everything out there, especially when it comes to notebooks, which is why I use XP, with a heavy dose of cygwin, when I travel.
With regards to your specific concerns:
The hitching and pausing is definitely not an acceptable state; to me it indicates something pretty serious going on under the hood. As to what it is, I have no idea, but you should know that most people don’t experience this and it needs to be corrected rather than assumed as a normal condition. I’m typing this on a 2.8Ghz multicore machine that is my primary development box and I regularly compile large blocks of code with hundreds of TestNG tests in the background and experience nary a hiccup as I do other things.
Media is a sore point with many linux distributions as the entire topic is encumbered by DRM concerns, Nevertheless some distribs handle it pretty seamlessly with Ubuntu and Suse leading the way.
Application installation doesn’t have to be the way you describe it. It can be a simple matter with a complete and functional UI around it. Again, Suse and Ubuntu are the forerunners here. I can’t claim to be a fan of Suse’s approach, but Ubuntu’s Synaptic and to a lesser degree Kubuntu’s Adept make application installation and management a breeze.
XMMS hasn’t been the “award winning, top of the line” or even preferred media player on many modern linux distributions in a while (at least IMHO). Try Amarok, the default player in most KDE distribs. It’s worth the space for the KDE libs even if you’re running a Gnome based system.
You’re correct that some people really like Konqueror. Event though I use a KDE based distribution, I’m not a fan of Konquerer myself. I use Krusader for file management, or for some tasks, the command line.
Left at their complete defaults, the fonts on my two linux systems are better than XP. I only add the MS core fonts after I install because a number of web pages are laid out poorly and require Verdana or Tahoma for proper spacing. The distribution will again play a large part in this result. I’m using Kubuntu on both of my Linux machines but I’ve tried Suse on one of them it its fonts were wonderful as well.
I don’t know what distribution you’re using or what kind of machine you installed Linux on. As I said above, a great deal depends on those two items and Linux just won’t work as universally as XP does, however on the 90% of machines that it will work with without tinkering (and I’d say 98% with some tinkering), it’s pretty slick.
Anyway, I know you didn’t want to say which distribution you were using, but it’s shame to give generic “Linux” a bad rap because of issues you’re having with one distribution. I won’t suggest you try Kubuntu because it seems pretty clear your mind it made up, but I did feel compelled to offer up a defense for those of us who work in both worlds, XP and Linux, and prefer the latter.
Thanks for all of your TestNG work! It’s been a great help for my current project.
#4 by Corey on April 18, 2007 - 10:36 am
“like every Linux upgrade I have ever gone through in the past twenty years”
Considering that Linus only started developing Linux 15 years ago, I find that rather impossible.
p.s. I run Ubuntu and its an absolute breeze to install and configure. The breadth and quality of the applications it provides is extremely impressive. My experience has been completely contrary to what you describe (for what its worth)
#5 by Romain GUY on April 18, 2007 - 10:43 am
Your comment on apps install reminds me of the experience I had with Windows Vista. After going through the steps to install drivers for my Sony Vaio laptop (and telling Vista at least twice that yes, I want to run setup.exe, thank you very much) I encountered the most flummoxing message I have ever seen on Windows. Vista told me that it wasn’t sure whether the software had been successfully installed. Even better, it asked *me* whether or not the software install was successful. Because I had no freakin’ idea I just pressed “Yes.” It turns out that the correct answer was “No.”
Anyway, Linux is definitely lagging behind for desktop usage. I recently had to use a Linux box and I decided to be hype so I installed Compiz. You get lots of eye-candy. Actually, so many eye-candies that I wanted to uninstall Compiz after a couple of hours (which, incidentally, killed X11 for good, it wouldn’t start anymore after that.) Compiz is impressive but you don’t get a full experience with it; the underlying desktop manager (GNOME in this case) still feels outdated (it’s even worse with KDE.)
(And I won’t even talk about the hassle to make my 30″ monitor work with Linux 😉
#6 by Emmanuel Pirsch on April 18, 2007 - 10:56 am
This is weird… I’ve switched back to Linux several month ago and I’m quite happy with the results… Performance wise, I can say that my laptop (a not so recent Pentium M) is far more responding in Linux than in Windows XP.
It’s true that sometime when the machine is really busy, that the mouse get a bit jerky, but it’s better than having Explorer freeze for more than a minute because of some network related problem.
On the media player front, I’ve tried many and I’m not completely happy with any… Nor was I completely happy with iTunes. Right now, I’m using Exaile (I’m running Gnome) and when I was using KDE, I used Amarok. Both are quite good media player.
As for software installation, most of the time, using apt-get (or it’s graphical couterpart) works without a hitch. But I do miss graphical installer that let you choose where you put your stuff.
As Frank said, Beryl is really nice and blows Vista effects away! It’s a bit intensive on the graphic card (My meager 64M of G ram is not enough to get full performance) and I stopped using it because of Java incompatibilities for Swing applications (which is due to buggy code in Java which is not capability driven but dependent on specific Window Manager – Incompatibility that are not present in SWT).
Basically, the only downside compared with Windows is some hardware compatibility issues (like corporate Printers that only have Windows drivers – but can still be used with Generic Postscript or PCL drivers). But overall, I’m much happier in Linux than in Windows… And when I really need Windows, I just boot my Window XP partition inside VMWare… This way, I can still use my computer when Windows is not responding!
BTW, I’m using Ubuntu 6.10 (but I know that you don’t care 😉 )
#7 by Richard on April 18, 2007 - 10:57 am
Don’t bother trying to use Linux. It sounds like your article was written 10 years ago when everything had to be compiled by the user. Stick with Microsoft or Apple. If Linux doesn’t work for you then the heck with it. If you really need to suffer so then smack a brick against your forehead until you understand the meaning of life.
#8 by Romain GUY on April 18, 2007 - 10:59 am
Emmanuel: Beryl just adds a coat of, often tasteless, eye-candy that doesn’t change some of the underlying problems. (Even though it’s a great piece of engineering)
#9 by Doug on April 18, 2007 - 11:24 am
Sorry for the multiple posts. Can you remove the 1st one that shows my email address bare ass naked on your blog?
#10 by Baptiste MATHUS on April 18, 2007 - 11:26 am
Obviously things are not perfect yet, but what you describe rather matches my user experience from 5 years ago.
Today, it’s far simpler than before to install and to use a linux machine. Far simpler from what you describe, at least. You don’t want to say which distro you used, but the thing is what you describe makes me think about something between LFS and Mandrake 8…
Anyway, for what it’s worth, I’d recommend you looking at a Debian-based (Ubuntu Feisty, for example) linux system. My computer is a dell inspiron laptop, and using everything on it has been not a headache at all…
As also said above, I also confirm that Xmms was the right choice 4 years ago. It’s no comparison with Amarok, or even Rhythmbox…
Romain, about compiz/beryl, please note that it’s still something like 0.2.x …
#11 by AhmedT on April 18, 2007 - 11:30 am
I’m sorry Cedric, but you seem to be the only one I know about and respect who always thinks Windows is a better choice!
I do agree with you about Linux in some points but, as some of comments here mention, Ubuntu seems to solve a ton of these problems.
What I really do not understand at all, is how you still think Windows is better than OS X! I’m not a Windows basher, and I’m not a Linux lover, but I am for sure an OS X fan.
Windows doesn’t hiccup? COME ON! I have never seen a windows machine that doesn’t go into disk swapping fits for no apparent reason no matter how much memory you throw at it. On the other hand, I can run my MacBook continuously for more than 50 days without having to reboot. Same goes for Linux from a stability stand point, the only times I have to reboot a Linux box is when I’m updating the Kernel, how many times do you reboot your Windows?
#12 by Romain Guy on April 18, 2007 - 11:35 am
Baptiste: I don’t care. They might be numbered 0.2 or 0.0.01 but I still think that *today* they are very distracting and don’t help improve the user experience much. And I love eye-candy (it’s my job to add eye-candy to apps so to speak 🙂
#13 by Sam on April 18, 2007 - 11:55 am
Ahmed, I don’t how often Cedric has to reboot his Windows box but I only reboot mine if I need to install a system patch or some software that has a driver. I hate to break this to you but the days of daily BSODs are long over. In fact, since using XP I’ve NEVER had a BSOD and I use it every day for about 12 hours a day for hardcore stuff like software development and gaming. This notion that Windows is horribly unstable is bullshit. It was but not anymore. People need to stop spreading this propaganda.
They also need to accept the fact that OSs like Linux and OSX are old and have plenty of their own warts. I’m not impressed with any of them. At least with Windows I have choices. Linux and OSX are just ways to say I don’t want to use 90% of the software in existence nor 90% of the hardware.
In short Ahmed, cut the crap.
#14 by Justin on April 18, 2007 - 12:11 pm
I gave up on Linux and switched back to windows a while ago. Then I came back again with the latest Ubuntu 7.04 and I’ve been pretty impressed. Ubuntu is far ahead of every other distro out there for sure. Oh yeah, actually try and use the ubuntu package manager and system management tools, etc. They actually built some usabile infrastructure that is worth taking a half hour to learn the basics of. I always see old unix nerds loading up Ubuntu and going straight for /etc/printcap and saying “See you unix is still not ready for the desktop” when there are some great printer configuration tools right there in the menu that can setup quite a bit with a couple of clicks.
#15 by Corey on April 18, 2007 - 12:28 pm
> “I only reboot mine if I need to install a system
> patch or some software that has a driver. I hate
> to break this to you but the days of daily BSODs
> are long over.”
I reboot my XP box at LEAST 3 times a day, whereas my Linux boxes stay up for months and only get rebooted if I do a kernel upgrade. The days of BSOD’s are no where NEAR over.. in fact i got one last night.
#16 by Corey on April 18, 2007 - 12:29 pm
> “I only reboot mine if I need to install a system
> patch or some software that has a driver. I hate
> to break this to you but the days of daily BSODs
> are long over.”
I reboot my XP box at LEAST 3 times a day, whereas my Linux boxes stay up for months and only get rebooted if I do a kernel upgrade. The days of BSOD’s are no where NEAR over.. in fact i got one last night.
#17 by Anonymous on April 18, 2007 - 1:02 pm
> I reboot my XP box at LEAST 3 times a day, whereas
> my Linux boxes stay up for months and only get
> rebooted if I do a kernel upgrade. The days of
> BSOD’s are no where NEAR over.. in fact i got one
> last night.
Really? Last night Linux broke into my apartment and bit my ass because I had Windows XP running on my computers. Strange, but true!
#18 by Geoffrey Wiseman on April 18, 2007 - 1:14 pm
You should have used distribution X, you idiot!
#19 by Sam on April 18, 2007 - 1:24 pm
Corey, you’re either completely full of shit (99% chance) or you do get BSODs 3x a day (1% chance) because YOU HAVE A FUGGING HARDWARE/DRIVER PROBLEM. That is the only way you’re gonna get BSODs in Windows. Don’t try and bullshit a bullshitter. I work with XP day in and day out and I’m surrounded by other XP users. This BSOD crap is virtually non-existent nowadays.
And I hate to tell you but it’s very easy to get Linux to crash when given the same problem.
#20 by AhmedT on April 18, 2007 - 2:47 pm
Sam,
I’m not getting into an “Which OS is the best” argument with you because we can both argue till we are blue in the face, but I did live in Windows land for a really long time (I actually wrote device drivers for windows for a living at a point in the past, so I technically know more about windows than most people, and I was never impressed).
But in any case, I have nothing to gain by bashing Windows, obviously every OS has its positives and negatives, nothing is perfect.
I’m relaying my personal experience running a windows machine at home for my son, which I continuously have to baby sit (the computer, not my son :-)) to make sure my entire network doesn’t get foobared.
Also, I work on a daily basis with people who run Windows, and they are continuously complaining, continuously rebooting, and more than often frustrated.
This is just an observation, and it does not by any means constitute a big enough sample to, say, be concluded as a study result 🙂
Obviously some people, such as yourself, and Cedric, find windows to be stable for their uses, and actually enjoy it. If that what makes you productive and happy, than so be it. Nothing wrong with that. As for me, I’m almost 10x productive on OS X and I’m enjoying every minute of it since I switched 3 years ago.
#21 by Frank on April 18, 2007 - 3:36 pm
@Romain:
‘Emmanuel: Beryl just adds a coat of, often tasteless, eye-candy that doesn’t change some of the underlying problems. (Even though it’s a great piece of engineering)’
Heh, I hear the same thing about Vista (minus the great piece of engineering). 😉
#22 by Frank on April 18, 2007 - 3:37 pm
@Romain:
‘Emmanuel: Beryl just adds a coat of, often tasteless, eye-candy that doesn’t change some of the underlying problems. (Even though it’s a great piece of engineering)’
Heh, I hear the same thing about Vista (minus the great piece of engineering). 😉
#23 by Anonymous on April 19, 2007 - 12:14 pm
Cedric,
Wow! I’ve been reading your blog now for several years and have always been impressed by your insight. Unfortunately, this post is a significant stain on your otherwise impeccable blogging record. There is clearly something very wrong with your approach to maintaining a desktop linux environment.
#24 by G. on April 19, 2007 - 1:11 pm
Strange.. It has been 1 year that i think just like. But, now, thing seems to change seriously.
I have been trying linux since 2000. Every year, once or twice. I had horrible problem with soundcards, too that were too bigs (cylinders…) etc.
I installed – I don’t know? 10 debians, 4 mandrake, 3 red hats and so on.
Now I work on linux server and things just work – for the servers…
I considered several times to try and install linux workstation. But since last year it was not convincing. I really tried! But… nope.
First Because of performance of the window manager. It was so slow! For instance gnome on ubuntu.
Or it broke. It just did not work. I don’t know how many times I tried kde and had error messages telling me it broke.
Or the sound card was not recognized. Damned, I NEVER understood the alsa v. oss thing. Because every web page say that alsa repalces alsa and is much better – but none of them says why my computer worked with oss and not alsa. To say the truth : I do not want to know these details! I don’t care about alsa v. oss! Don’t wanna search! Is my life gonna be better if i know this technical detail? Please…
Moreover, Eclipse was horrible and slow on my latest ubuntu machine.
Etc.
I read that the Gnome project manager pointed last year that performance improovment was the next big step.
I stopped considering linux for desktop as a possibility. It was hard to convince myself but, no, it just does not work. I want to be a stupid guy with my OS – the one that just use the machine – and the linux-es I tried did not help me on that way.
But I must tell the next part of the story. I installed the latest ubuntu on my laptop (dell latitude 1Go) 2 month ago.
As usually, the update from Edgy to Feisty did not work – sorry to say that but… :-\
So I reinstalled the whole thing – in fact re-installing linux is easy since 2 years ago.
And… Well It BEGINS to be very good!
The windows appears fast. The “command line” is not the only way to do things – even if I still do my apt-get by myself!
Last year when you wanted to search a file on the system it was a nightmare. It is improving – yet it is not perfect. For instance If on the result window after searching a file, you do not know in which folder the founded file is! Stupid isn’t it? Stupid bug but nothing compared to the 3 latest years.
Everything seems to be more professionnal. The xmms-like apps (by the way your xmms is very ugly!) (for instance xine…) are slowly disappearing. But too slowly.
Moreover I installed a non-free pilot for my graphcal card – and the windows are much quicker… Ok I feel guilty but not enough to remove that pilot.
Linux really seems to be improving. It seems to worth the shot. But to me it is the first year this year that linux is really useable in an everyday use for a “normal” developper.
#25 by Anonymous on April 19, 2007 - 6:44 pm
Me again..
Re-reading your post: there’s probably something wrong with your Linux installation. Most Linux users do definitely not experience this.
So I stand by my comment: Linux is not ready for the desktop… But as a programmer you should be able to make it work. It’s not that complicated and you’ll be more knowledgable after spending the time to fix your problems.
By the way now that we’ve got OpenSolaris and now Java being Open Sourced we may soon see DTrace love on Linux. How can you as a programmer not want a tool like DTrace and how can you work on a platform you *can’t* really understand? Windows is closed, you can never really know what’s going under the hood. The source code is simply closed. So at one point you’re stuck…
While on the Unix side you’ve got complete control. As a programmer I love it and it also eases the communication with the Unix admins of the real-world, running the real-servers, running Java apps…
#26 by LuxLuxLux on April 19, 2007 - 11:05 pm
Cedric, you have all my solidarity ..
#27 by Smurf Hunter on April 20, 2007 - 10:31 am
Cedric,
Your posts have become boring in the last several months. While I was never an active testNG user I used to enjoy reading your regular blogs about testing and design methodologies.
Now you just whine like some snobby artist.
-S
#28 by dvydra on April 21, 2007 - 9:48 pm
Cedric,
Thanks for this post. I have not found the perfect OS yet. Windows can be very slow compared to Linux for some types of development, mainly because of its filesystem. At the same time I find installing and tuning most UI software for Linux to be a royal pain. I use both Windows and Linux depending on what works better.
#29 by Anonymous on April 23, 2007 - 1:36 am
Cedric,
I’m in the same boat. My favourite Linux “novelty” is the auto-update feature of OpenSuse. Sure, it resolves dependencies, downloads and installs. Great! Just like XP…. however, when I restart the box I’t won’t boot. I have to restart into failsafe-mode and run some obscure commands to link in the right kernel after an update….. or like with my latest update.. OpenSuse seems to have forgotten that it supported Fake RAID.. and now I can’t even boot into failsafe-mode.
XP and Cygwin – the only way to go on the desktop!
#30 by Amit C on May 18, 2007 - 4:01 pm
Hi,
Just to repeat again. You did not publish an update on the main page, so…
You need to try the latest Ubuntu Linux and then download through the package manager, Amarok for music, some screen shots at
http://amarok.kde.org/d/en/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1097
It does take a while to find all the best application on any OS.
Amit C
#31 by Ranec on September 7, 2009 - 3:32 am
ManyTricks have abandoned their software.
Their web site has (c) 2008 (in late 2009) and they ignore all emails.
There’s a bug in Witch that causes a HUGE delay (~10 seconds) between you pressing ATL-TAB and you actually getting the list of windows.
ManyTricks don’t care and you won’t get your money back if this affects you.
Avoid like the plague!!!